Talk:Yamato/Archive 1

Yamato Combo: Allow the sheathing animation adds your stylish gauge and regains about 1/2 Devil Trigger runes back!

The sheathing animation of the Yamato (Yamato Combo, Upper slash, Taunt) adds to your stylish gauge and recharges the Devil Trigger (Taunt creates an aura that continues to recharge)

"You will die." "Come on!" "Hmph, how boring." "What's wrong?"

Judgment Cut: As soon as you see him put the Yamato back in the scabbard, wait for a fraction of a second (or wait till the first rumble finishes), then press triangle. Observe his hand again for a second time, and this time press TRIANGLE AS SOON AS you see the sword sheathed. And Viola! All 3 hits of the Judgement Cut. Just remember the initial pause for the second hit, and the virtually non existent pause for the third hit.

Vergil often stylishly puts the Yamato back to it's sheath slowly, sometimes timing the act with the reaction of the being that he just attacked.

<Info on timing for Judgment Cut

The key is observing Vergil's actions and feeling the dual shock "rumbles." I suggest watching Vergil's hands. As soon as you see him put the Yamato back in the scabbard, wait for a fraction of a second (or wait till the first rumble finishes), then press triangle. Observe his hand again for a second time, and this time press TRIANGLE AS SOON AS you see the sword sheathed. And Viola! All 3 hits of the Judgement Cut. Just remember the initial pause for the second hit, and the virtually non existent pause for the third hit.


 * The above info needs to be covered somewhat more professionally in the lead, possibly with links to real-world use of a similar style, with some explanation of how he uses not only the blade but the sheath in battle. If it won't fit well in the lead, it should go into a "Gameplay" and "Movesets" sections, where appropriate. Glorious  CHAOS!  19:42, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

What the heck?
Why the heck is Summoned Swords included in the Yamato article when they could be goin' in the firearms section or somethin' since they operate in that way. I don't see how it's analogous to Yamato since the weapon can be used regardless of the currently equipped Devil Arm Kaihedgie 07:02, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The Dark Slayer Style and Summoned Swords bits from DMC4 were included as powers held within the Yamato. The whole thing is basically combined into one essence there, so we decided to merge them. Glorious  CHAOS!  17:07, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

You have to take into account though that the Summoned Swords in DMC3 and 4 are different. In addition, Dante doesn't have Summoned Swords in his moveset while using Darkslayer, despite knowing an advanced technique like Dimension Slash. The ones formed by Vergil not only look different, but work different as well. The swords in DMC3 operate and are registered as Guns and are used regardless of which Devil Arm where as in DMC4 they're only available in DT form. I could suggest makin' an article just for the DMC3 version though. Kaihedgie 21:12, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, in DMC3, the Dark Slayer style (which includes the Summoned Swords), says it is based on Vergil's weapons as well. I know it's a weird solution, but it's a facet of the Yamato in one game, so it's easier just to merge it than to have redundancies and duplicate articles.
 * Additionally, while the DMC1/3 Summoned Swords and the DMC4 swords are different aesthetically, they are clearly the same basic thing, and share the same functionality. And, as a concession to the fact that they are considered "Guns" in every appearance, the movelist lists them under guns, and their redirect pages categorize them as guns.
 * Since it was a consensus decision to merge the style and Summoned Swords in the first place, if you want to ask Flia and any other active editors to discuss a split, that would be fine, I guess, it's just going to be more difficult to cover the info.
 * Agh, I wish more people would edit this wiki. Glorious  CHAOS!  07:25, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

You called? :)

I remember that discussion being about DS style, not about summoned swords. And I don't remember any quote saying that they are a part of DSS either. More than that, Dante didn't use summoned swords with Yamato and Dark Slayer, but Nero had.

About DS itself... weeeeell, it is a really hard split. In DMC3 Vergil used it not only with Yamato, but with Beowulf and Force Edge too, yet in DMC4 it is technically a switch to Yamato. Maybe it should be a split indeed, DMC4 DS with its moveset placed here, and DMC3 and its moveset placed there, with a link of course. Maybe we could even create a disambig page. Yeah, that's an idea.

By the way, I'm being totally away from internet for a few days. If you want to make something now, you'll have to do it yourselves. Flia 18:58, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition, Style File — Dark Slayer: "A warrior fallen from grace. The power of darkness gives birth to new weapons and skills."
 * In addition, Summoned Swords can only be upgraded with the Dark Slayer style, not on its own (i.e., higher levels of SS require higher levels of DSS first). If the DSS is merged, Summoned Swords also have to be merged. And when Nero recieves the Yamato, he receives Summoned Swords as part of it.
 * Then, with Dante, the Dark Slayer Style is the Yamato, and splitting the info back to the DSS page would leave extremely Yamato-relevant info out.
 * A split is doable, but it would require taking the Dark Slayer stuff out, too. Glorious  CHAOS!  23:27, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

The quote you provided doesn't explicitly say that it is applied to Summoned swords too. And in DMC3 you cannot upgrade anything without levelling DS, including Beowulf. More like a gameplay thing to me, to prevent player from purchasing all abilities at once.

I don't know if it is a part of Yamato's powers, but I have several arguments against: first, if it was, it is likely to be used by Dante, but he did not (although it could by choice, I admit); second, it could be Nero's inherent power, Credo has such power already (yeah, I know about "dark angel" pieces presumably used in Ascension ceremony, but he isn't wielding Yamato anyway).

I know, it is just a rumor, but some people say that Nero is a son of Vergil... hate to say that, but if it is truly stated in that DMC4 novel, it will be so.

I didn't say that DMC4 DSS should be moved; more than that, I'm against it. Maybe I didn't explained myself clearly, but I suggest leaving here, with Yamato, all the info about Dante's Dark Slayer, and Vergil's Dark Slayer move away, to separate article. Then create a link to each other and a disambig page for those who want to find info about Dark Slayer using the search box. Technically, they are completely separate styles, just named the same, so such move is justified.

P.S.: Gone. :( Flia 06:24, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
 * How about we split off Dark Slayer and Summoned Swords, but mention them in the lead, and direct readers to their pages? Glorious  CHAOS!  04:15, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

I think that it will be fine if we leave here the DMC4 DSS, as I suggested already. Flia 18:06, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well then it would be appropriate to leave the Summoned Swords here as well. The same arguments apply for keeping both here. Glorious  CHAOS!  22:43, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

No, there is no reason. As I said, there is no direct links to SS being a part of Yamato powers, while Dante's DSS is technically a Yamato-wielding mode. Note that I operate under an assumption that the DMC3 and DMC4 DSS' are completely different styles, just named the same.

And I want someone third to participate in this. There is Kaihedgie?.. Flia 21:03, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * The DMC4 Summoned Swords are gained from the Yamato. That's a direct link. Yes, the DSS functions differently in each game, but then, in DMC3 it's only difference from Trickster is that it allows you to upgrade your Devil Arms and obtain the Summoned Swords. Glorious  CHAOS!  10:25, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, I had been misinterpreting your suggestion. Okay, what if we return the Summoned Sword and DSS articles to their pre-merge states, but have a copy of the DMC4 DSS here? That way, all the DSS info is on one page, and all of the Yamato and DSS-Yamato info is on this page. Glorious  CHAOS!  10:43, September 13, 2009 (UTC)

That seems to be the only way. However, it's likely that such way a repetition will occur. Maybe if we place a link... No, it's too close-related to both Yamato and DSS in general. Yeah, that seems to be the only way. Flia 12:19, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * The pages have been resplit. Do we want to keep the Dark Slayer description on this page, merge the info with the lead, remove it entirely or what? I think merging it would work best, personally. Glorious  CHAOS!  17:20, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * Also - I haven't quite gotton to the DMD playthrough on DMC1 (trying to get perfect games on each level as I go through). Could someone get the movelist for Yamato in DMC1? Glorious  CHAOS!  17:22, September 14, 2009 (UTC)

Broken Yamato, what happened?
Why was the sword broken in the DMC4? The Devil Arm was broken, how did that happen? The theroy I have is that the sword was broken during Veril's fight with Mundus after DMC3. Perhaps The sword was broken durning the fight, Vergil lost his arm and sword.

Sheath the Blade
Every time Vergil sheath Yamato, anything it cuts will fall apart. Is that copy from some samurai movies' actions? - Nathan900130 14:26, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Its cliche anime stuff. Glorious  CHAOS!  22:07, April 24, 2010 (UTC)

Design
So far, we haven't really spelled out the design for any of the weapons, though a well-written "Design" section should be quite all right. However, for the guns and other realistic weapons, I'd really prefer they be written by people who have studied those types of weapons in real life, to avoid the fighting that we had over at Ebony & Ivory.

So, I'm putting this excerpt here - please work on it with a real katana expert (find one if you must) before reposting it on the page.(ಠ_ೃ)﻿ Bully!  14:21, April 20, 2011 (UTC)

"Yamato O-katana is of great design it had a black scabbard with a golden ribbon tied around it with the blade's handle itself was wrapped in white silk cloth with a intricate design of of black silk covering the sides of the handle make a straight line to the guard while sheathed."

Introduction Quotes
And why have you deleted the introduction quote I once placed? Maybe here are some replacements; P.S. - It is "resurrected" so is it a living weapon? KevzMarz 10:57, August 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * That sword was used to seperate our world from the demons. - Dante
 * I need this - Nero
 * Impossible, not even I could succeed in restoring it! - Agnus
 * He resurrected Yamato! - Agnus
 * Find us Nero and Yamato and bring them back to me - Sanctus


 * Sorry for late reply, I was away for a while.


 * This is an epigraph. In our case, an epigraph should either showcase the subject in general, or refer to its "core" quality(ies); it isn't just some random quote that tells something about the subject. So, if we had a quote that states "Yamato is awesome" or "Yamato is deadly" or "Yamato is Vergil's weapon, and only his", I will have no qualms about using it. Anyway, if there is no appropriate quote, it is better to leave the article without the epigraph than with one that looks out of place.


 * We actually discussed something like that before, you might be interested in reading it.


 * P.S.: I don't think that usage of the word "resurrected" means anything in particular. It is sometimes used with inanimate objects too. My signature is NOT short! 10:41, August 28, 2011 (UTC)

Sparda Costume In DMC1
I read that Dante with the Sparda costume in DMC1 begins with Yamato, so shouldn't there be a moveset for it in DMC1? --I need more dark power! 23:16, May 31, 2012 (UTC)

Never mind, scrap the idea, should've read the trivia section more clearly. --I need more dark power! 16:18, June 1, 2012 (UTC)

Two Yamatos


Note: For the remainder of the discussion, please use "Nero" separately from "spectre". For the complete entity, use "they", or something similar.

This isn't a particularly good screenshot, but as you can clearly see, there are TWO Yamatos here. This screenshot is from the beginning slash of Showdown, but I checked, and they use both swords during the whole move. In fact, they are using three swords, since Nero dual-wields Real!Yamato and Red Queen while the spectre uses the Ghost!Yamato. This is the only place when this happens. Nero doesn't touch Yamato during the Maximum Bet, and during the cutscenes the spectre never holds any version of Yamato - only the Real!Yamato ever appears, and it is always wielded by Nero himself.

Another fact - it looks like the sword the spectre wields is NOT the Real!Yamato. The version DT spectre holds is noticeably different - it is much bigger, translucent, and bluish, like the rest of it. Might it be that Nero's DT form also possesses the power to create a duplicate of Yamato?.. Given the fact that Nero already can create Summoned Swords...

Other fun facts: I weren't able to see where exactly he takes the sword from, but it seems like Nero takes it from the same place the spectre does - the arm-sheath. At the end of the move, the Real!Yamato disappears with a stylish gesture, giving another proof for "Yamato is stored in hammerspace while not in use" theory. :3 My signature is NOT short! 11:53, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Oh boy, I'm so confused. I can't even understand most of the things you said. And my mom said I'm an analytical kind of person. How do you even noticed this? I mean it happened so quick! I think I'll just stay out for this one LOL. --I need more dark power! 12:17, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Well, that is me, the official Devil May Cry wikia Nero geek. ^_^ But, frankly, it was from way back when I was checking for "Yamato in hammerspace" theory. It is just that only now I've posted this. Aaand, I was using a video, not checking it directly in-game. :3 My signature is NOT short! 12:22, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Pardon my lack of knowledge, but is hammerspace and hyperspace the same? If they aren't, what's the difference? --I need more dark power! 12:31, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

They can overlap, but no, they aren't. Read this. You gotta love TVTropes. My signature is NOT short! 12:48, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Now I'm even more confused. I seriously shouldn't have asked. Never mind, it's getting more and more off topic. --I need more dark power! 13:02, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

It shouldn't be, really. In short, hammerspace is the space from which things appear when the plot needs them. Like Yamato, or plenty of other weapons in fiction. In comedy, it is used to get huge hammers out of characters clothes. Since those, ahem, tools of destruction cannot possibly fit in there, the space where they come from has been dubbed "hammerspace".

Also, hammerspace is just off-topic. What about participating in the main discussion? :)

Also, some more info. I checked the Showdown's starting animation again and from several different angles. Spectre indeed takes Ghost!Yamato from the sheath - it is visibly in it at the start, and spectre's hand clearly grabs that hilt. Nero, instead, places his left hand on his waist, and grabs the air as if there is the scabbard. Then Nero reaches with his right for the waist, as if the sword is in its scabbard there, and Real!Yamato appears from the air, with an explicit, if not easily noticeable, flash. This flash is very similar to what happens in some of Dante's moves, so it is intentional. My signature is NOT short! 13:15, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't understand what's your point ... Elveonora 16:06, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

I wanted to write Powers section for the blade, but then stumbled upon this. I don't know whether to consider it true, or just count it as a game technicality, so I put it up for discussion. I thought that it was more apparent. *scratches her head* I also thought it might be plain interesting. You know, the wiki is supposed to be filled to brim with DMC geeks. My signature is NOT short! 16:13, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Are you talking about the "dimension" or 2 Yamato's as a power?Elveonora 16:24, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

The duplicate was the original discussion I wanted to put up, but then it trailed off into hammerspace, so probably both. My signature is NOT short! 16:37, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * The "space" appears to be a power, the 2nd Yamato is not anything special.


 * Nero wears Yamato and the spirit that has 'possessed" Nero also does.


 * Don't want to speculate much, but it's quite common ... it's noticable that Nero's DT resembles Vergil and also the way the spirit sheats Yamato is obvious, thus the spirit we see when Nero activates "Devil Trigger" being no other than Vergil.


 * So basically during the attack, both Nero and the spirit attack with their Yamato Elveonora 17:40, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Your favorite novel refers to the spectre being Nero's spirit. :P Refer to the summary, Volume 1 point 9. Otherwise, thanks for the opinion. My signature is NOT short! 17:50, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * The devil-lair's summary is not to be trusted, a lot of the translators personal notes/opinions included and the translation isn't that good as well for sure, also its taken out of the context and no problem. Elveonora 18:23, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

AFAIK, CaT (the "translator") is Japanese. And she is probably more of a fan than me too. She translated the manga for example - this is the translation you've read. I trust them, you should too. Also, don't be shy, you are using the same summary to get the novel info - there are simply no other sources. Damn, I will get the stupid novel sometime and read it. My signature is NOT short! 19:07, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * If it weren't for the fact that Yamato disappears in a puff of smoke when Dante wields it, I'd be all for considering this to be a game technicality. Remember that Blue Rose isn't shown anywhere on Nero's character model, yet it clearly isn't stored in hammerspace. However, this explanation for Yamato is complicated by the fact that there's a clear animation for it disappearing (presumably into hammerspace) when Dante stops using it. :\ So, the controversy remains... --Anobi (talk) 19:23, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Theory: it vanishes back to the sheath that's also mysteriously appearing and disappearing :O

@Flia, "there are simply no other sources" that's why I don't trust it, it's not even a proper translation of the novel, just a summary.Elveonora 19:33, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Elveonora, there is no sheath. I mean the real, the black one, Yamato's sheath. Scabbard never ever appears on Nero's person (even during the Showdown), until the very last cutscene, La Vita Nuova, when Nero is handing Yamato over to Dante. (How he got it in THAT scene is a mystery... Dante explicitly hands over only the blade to him.) Believe me, I check this sort of stuff like a maniac I am.


 * Anobi, Both at the beginning and at the end of the Showdown, Yamato explicitly appears/disappears. Checked, many times. Also, what is your opinion of the Two Yamato dilemma? My signature is NOT short! 19:44, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Like I said, I would consider this just a gameplay technicality, but the appearing/disappearing trick also happens with Dante, so I'm not inclined to say that's all it is. I'm also not inclined to say that the ability to hide in hammerspace is exclusive to Yamato, since all the weapons Dante weilds just "appear" when he equips them. As for the "Two Yamato" deal: I think there's only one Yamato. The spectral version is just that, a spectre, and thus not the real thing. --Anobi (talk) 20:02, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * None of them have explicit appearing/disappearing animations. Also, most of the weapons stay on the person, even when idle, until you change and swing another weapon. Heck, Artemis kept showing on Dante's arm even when you were using E&I. Yamato in DMC4, on the other hand, is pretty consistent in having those animations.


 * Fun fact: during the tutorial, before you get other weapons, Nero keeps Blue Rose in his hand even after firing a shot. It disappears once you do anything else though. My signature is NOT short! 20:16, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Blue Rose is hidden under Nero's cloak Elveonora 20:22, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks, cap. Although, no. It is actually on his right thigh. Supposedly. Watch the entry to Mitis forest cutscene. My signature is NOT short! 20:34, July 8, 2012 (UTC)


 * I think you mean his left thigh. --Anobi (talk) 21:48, July 8, 2012 (UTC)

Damn, you caught me. I'm beaten at my own game. You have the free license to troll me whenever you'd like, Anobi. My signature is NOT short! 23:28, July 8, 2012 (UTC)