Thread:LegionZero/@comment-967403-20190212123425/@comment-6769189-20190215102332

JayAaerow wrote: I actually hadn't finished by rebuttal but i'll sum up my points more concisely:

The game itself adresses them as Secretary in the files so i dont see how it takes the artbook to make the argument valid. It gives a blurb and some backstory in the enemy file and doesnt use the term mannequin to identify its species.
 * I'll agree to use Secretary based on the usage of it in the artbook. That should of been the argument, not the capitalization and frequency of use.

JayAaerow wrote:


 * The capitalization has no actual bearing on it because technically speaking, you shouldn't/don't have to capitalize it in Arius's context, though i can see why names are capitalized anyway. But demon (it has been capitalized and then not), human, demon-human hybrid aren't capitalized and those are races too. The only reason I can see they did it is because lesser demons like "Shadow", and "Secretary" can get mixed up with it's real world terms and you would then have to always say "shadow demon" and "secretary demon". But that doesn't make it correct grammatically. And not even this series' always follows that.

The series has always capitalized all lesser demons' names and there has never been an inconsistancy in this regard. Mannequin not being capitalized means its not a name, and was never explained to be a race, so why you are so convinced it is is beyond me.

JayAaerow wrote:


 * Frequency of use on it's own (at least in this context) is a bad argument too and is actually considered a logical fallacy of availability bias I believe.

Im sorry but "you are a..." is a good argument? The series has called many characters many things using a similar statemant but that doesnt make whatever they call said character the name of a species or type of demon.

Characters have been called a worm, an incomplete being, excrement, a toad, in a similar context the list goes on and on

JayAaerow wrote:

A similar case has been Nero and his relation to Vergil on this wiki. False equivelancy. It was not until DMC5 was announced was it ever made perfectly clear that this was the case. Capcom was vague about it in the beginning and later was flatout inconsistant

JayAaerow wrote:

It does not actually take multiple cases of stating one thing for it to be true. Matt Walker's tweet of the changing timeline didn't need to be stated on more than one occasion to be taken as unequivocally true. Thats because he was clear about the change, which elaborated on the recap video of the series that placed 2 before 4. Now if Itsuno comes out and says that it is 3142 then there is an issue.

JayAaerow wrote:


 * That's why I say it's best to look at things "case-by-case". Your capitalization argument would not make sense if applied all else. And we've already seen what happen with the frequency of use (if that is a deciding factor) argument where we doubt official sources simply because it's in another language and we don't like the information. BUT then imagine applying it to Matt Walker saying the DMC timeline has changed even when we have at least 3 sources with a already established timeline. It would make sense to take it true since he's more recent and is revealing information for a sequel.

Again false equivelancy. The timeline was officialized.

Mannequin was not ever recognized as an official name in any capacity.

JayAaerow wrote:

I already provided first hand testimony from a strategy guide creator that the extent of the interactions between game devs and guide makers is "here is an early build, make a guide", making them an unreliable source for anything that is not backed by the game or devs. They dont have the authority to make up terms or make narrative decisions.
 * I'm going to eternally disagree with you on the strategy guide because that STILL requires permission and actual information on other strategy guides beyond DMC2 have lined up fairly consistently with information from artbooks and other sources. But that's settled.

JayAaerow wrote:

Hard to be a translation issue when the guide makers recieve the game to play and DMC2 was only ever voiced over in english and came with appropriate subtitles.
 * Lastly, DMC2's strategy guide setting name between "Vindu Mali" and "Vie De Mali" is not incompetence. I really don't mean to say this insultingly but learn a different language deeply and you'll likely understand how silly it is to think that the two difference in translation is a example of incompetence.

JayAaerow wrote:

Translation will vary and even DMC is subject to this a lot. Be it Nero and Nelo Angelo, Lowell and Rowell, and Guardian and Protectors. And those are just small examples. L and R is a common issue with Japanese, but i already explained why its not a translation issue.