Talk:Sin Devil Trigger

Majin Form=SDT
Seeing as how Majin Form, SDT, and Perfect Devil Trigger all have the same name in japanese, shouldnt we merge the pages? They all look similar enough that i think it is clear they are the same thing. LegionZero (talk) 02:29, April 17, 2019 (UTC)
 * Absolutely not. They have different names in English, different origins, and work in completely different ways. It's not even particularly clear what Maijin form is supposed to be or if it's canon, given it's never been mentioned since, and for that matter wasn't even mentioned in DMC 2 itself. Besides, why would Dante make a big show of unlocking SDT if Maijin form was a thing he could do before? Evil Tim (talk) 02:40, April 17, 2019 (UTC)
 * Having different names in english doesnt mean much when the game is japanese and made by japanese people. Before DMC5, Dante couldnt access it unless he was about to die. It working differently in DMC5 doesnt mean its not the same thing. As far as i am aware, Majin Form didnt have an explanation of origin.LegionZero (talk) 03:46, April 17, 2019 (UTC)
 * So why didn't he use it against Urizen, then? Most likely because they didn't bother acknowledging it, because it's just this mechanic DMC 2 had that had no role in the story and was never explained. It could be said to replace Majin form / desperate devil trigger by giving Dante a similar power with an actual explanation behind it, but it's not the same thing at all. One of these things is an unexplained mechanic which seems to have been created just to make the game easier, one is a key plot element which is related to a Devil Arm, and the third is an abandoned concept. They're in no way "the same thing" just because they share a name, any more than the DMC 3 style called Quicksilver is the DMC 1 item called Quicksilver.
 * Plus the translations are official, so "Sin Devil Trigger" carries just as much weight as "Shin Majin" as the name (unless you'd like to start calling Vergil "Bajiru"). Where does "Shin Majin" being the name for DDT mode even come from? The English manual never even mentions it, let alone naming it, and the only other time it appeared was a very odd appearance in the manga where from what I've heard Dante turns into it before the events of DMC 3 somehow. Evil Tim (talk) 04:16, April 17, 2019 (UTC)
 * why didnt he use it against Urizen? He got knocked into a month long coma before he could transform. Shin Majin probably from the japanese version of the website that gave us Majin Form or f4om one of the many interviews featured in 3142GA. The translations being official doesnt change the fact that in the original language they all have the same name. Official also doesnt mean correct. "Shin majin" means "true demon form" or something along those lines, which was used to describe PDT and SDT. Bajiru is the japanese pronunciation of a non-japanese name. As it stands there is more evidence for them being the same thing than not being the same thing. LegionZero (talk) 06:11, April 17, 2019 (UTC)
 * No, there's no evidence for them being the same. There is not one thing in common between them: they look different, they are different mechanically, they are from different games. The name is the only thing they have in common. The fact that they use a very generic title in Japanese is no reason to lump three completely dissimilar concepts together. And I note you don't even know if DDT form actually has the name in question in Japanese, nevermind how official it is. So what we have here is trying to merge a completely unexplained game mechanic that only appears in any part of the DMC storyline in one panel of the manga that makes no sense, a key part of DMC 5's story, and some discarded concept art of super forms for Dante and Nero because of an unsourced claim that they have the same name in one particular language.
 * More to the point, do you have any source that says these forms are the same? Not just that they have the same name (which we don't have either, but hey), but that they are the same? This is the same issue as with the "god" thing from before, you're presenting evidence and saying you think it means "A is B," but what you need is evidence that actually says that A is B. Otherwise all we can say is "A is like B." Evil Tim (talk) 06:31, April 17, 2019 (UTC)