Trish knew who Lady was because she saw walk in to Devil May Cry and immediately called Dante. Everything after their initial meeting was Trish trolling her. Trish holding back:

• Trish has super strength, she didnt use it.
• Trish can add lightning to her melee, she didnt do that either.

Trish not taking killshots

• Trish had Lady on the ground, defenseless and shot her hair.
• Trish didnt shoot lightning straight at Lady when Lady was going to stab her.

Name calling is not indicative of killer intent.

My very first statement on the matter was that characters without superhuman strength, in the context of melee combat, cannot hurt Dante. I slipped up in the second response.

Speculation as to whether Beowulf hit harder than Trish did

Dante's wounds heal instantly, but that doesnt mean that he is not hurt or effected by attacks. Look at the fights with Vergil, Nelo Angelo, Arkham. No visible injuries yet Vergil beat him into uncounsciousness, Arkham stomped him and Vergil, and Nelo Angelo left him dazed and unable to fight back.

Dante was clearly moving between hits after she shocked him. If he was paralyzed in the sense that he could not move at all, then he would have went down after the fist hit, but he stood his ground and cought himself after the first strike.

Dante's behavior and physical reactions to Nelo Angelo's strikes are almost identicle to what happened with Trish. He was grunting, stunned and knocked back by the attacks that landed. Punched and kicked backwards several feet, and was unable to recover fast enough for the next attack.

Pachinko games and crossovers are non-canon.

Lady has shown no feats of strength ever. In fact, in episode 12, a demon yanked Kalina Ann away from her and then picked her up in the air. Lady had to shoot her way out of that situation. She is only able to kill demons is because of her ridiculous arsenal of firearms. There is a reason she almost never engages in melee combat.

As shown from the anime and DMC4, she commonly needs Dante to help her with cases because she isnt able to handle them on her own. Trish has never needed Dante's help with a case

Dante could have pulled the trigger the moment she twitched. He had no reason to hear her out because she just attacked but she got up without a care in the world.

Lady needs whole mags to kill lesser demons.

Also Mundus death beam>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bullets. Surviving the beam means she survives bullets easily.

 

Yes he got hurt. Because the bullet peirced him, which is why needed to heal, the way he heals from anything else in the series that cuts, pierces, slices, cuts, etc etc him. All those other things make him bleed as well.

Even Vergil bled even though he insta-healed from what would have been a bisecting slash from Dante.

We dont have any single info about Trish not killing humans tbh. That's speculation at best. </div> She is one of the good guys. They dont kill humans. Dante wouldnt associate with her if she did.

Alternate Trish is a completely unknown variable so they are not relevent to this discussion.

Headcanon

• Trish was "holding back", that's why she shoot at Lady with powered with electricity bullets at the start which Lady had to counter with her own? That's why she shoot with the wave so strong that it destroyed entire building? Yea, no.
• Trish "has super strenght"... her biggest lifting strenght feat is the motorbike throw. Nothing above that was ever showed from her. Nothing that would alow her to break Lady in half either.
• Trish used lighting on her guns and on Lady when she was on the ground, the power output was so big that it destroyed the roof of the church. It could have easily killed normal human, and she was pointing her hand directly at Lady. You wont tell me that she was just using a beam that was going to destroy the building but not Lady on her way.
• Trish had Lady on the ground... And she indeed shoot her hair. Cockiness, nothing more.
• Name calling is not indicative of killer intent... That's true. But shooting at someone's body with powered up guns without knowing the full abilities of the individual (that is a human) and then using energy blast on them (That is strong enough to destroy the roof) is enough to tell, that there was a killing intent.

Based on what it did to the environment. Yes, it's called power-scalling.

So... by going with that, Lady's bullet did hurt him.

After the first hit he took a step back, however he wasnt fighting back or even trying to protect himself. It's the safest option to say, that he simply at that moment couldnt do so due to the lasting effect of paralys that hasnt wore off yet, or Trish attacks were so weak that he simply let her hit himself. Pick your poison ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Yea... I am rewatching the whole Nelo Angelo's fight... and Dante is actually trying to fight in there and is loosing. In Trish fight he wasnt even fighting and he still managed to win without much trouble.

They might not be canon.. **Just like DB GT**, however they were made by Capcom and are a clear indication what the creators of the game are thinking about the characters and their power-scalling... Capcom in that case.

I think that you dont get me. I am not saying that Lady is stronger or have a better feats... Trish by far have more haxxes and techniques... Yet based on everything showcased so far, Lady seems to be capable for giving her some troubles and holding her own. The original topic of this debate was whenever Trish can take down bosses on her own without a weapon... And nothing indicates that she can. Lady (with Kalina Ann) has taken down only lesser demons and the same is with Trish. If Lady (who is capable of hurting and fighting off a while against no-weapon Trish) can be compared to Trish (and once a gain a lot of games/spin-offs does that)... then Trish by comprasion to Lady... is not capable of takind down big demons. At least not from what she and Lady has showcased so far.

That death beam that Dante reflected casually with his eyes, without blinking when he was a bit serious? Yea... I dunno. And dont even bring up the whole "Mundus is universal" thingy... 

Thanks for admitting that he got hurt by normal bullet?

That's also headcanon. There has been never stated a single thing about Dante not killing humans. If anything Lady in DMC 3 mentioned that there are humans worse then devils.

On topic of what weapons lady and Trish should get I'd say have lady track down Pandora be a one woman army as for Trish I'd say have Nico make gold bracers for Trish to absorber her lightning and make it so she can release it in a super bolt  and deal damage equivalent to Dante's real impact move

Anime episode 4

It didnt destroy the building, it blew hole in the roof. She didnt hit Lady even though she was at point blank range. She was trollong Lady until Dante arrived.

A motorcycle on average, is 400 lbs. The strongest bone in the human body, on average, needs 160 lbs of pressure to break.

It really shouldnt take science to deduce that the strength needed to lift small vehicles is more than enough to break bones.

The lightning didnt hit Lady. She would have been fried if it did. She would have been thrown into ceiling if it did. Her clothes would have been burned off if it did.

We have established that Trish's lightning, at minimum, can blow holes in buildings. Interesting how on the night they first "fought" Trish didnt blow holes in the rooftops Lady was standing on.

She was waiting for Dante to show up so that he could explain to Lady that Trish isnt a bad guy/enemy.

Accurate power-scaling would be comparing one ground punch to another.

You cant compare the damage done because they were on different surfaces and the attacks werent directed the same way.

Yes. But why does this matter? This wasnt about bullets and guns. This about melee combat.

Or that Trish was giving him a decent challenge. And needed time to recover. It wasnt until she stopped the constant barrage to throw the motorcycle that was able to do anything to defend himself.

"Win." Trish and Dante didnt see their fight through to the end. Trish casually and confidently walked around the office despite Dante holding her at gun point, showing that she wasnt afraid for her life.

Not that this is a DB discussion, but GT isnt canon. It doesnt fit in with the DBS timeline

And no crossovers are not valid indicators of anything. They are made by different people for fan service. There is no legitimite powerscaling involved.

The pachinko machines are not canon. They are full of randomness and scenes that dont align with the games.

No i dont get you. You agree that Trish has better feats in almost every catagory, and more abilities but suggest that she is equal to Lady because of a fight where Trish was holding back so that she didnt kill Lady.

Trish can casually throw motorcycles, but cant break Lady's bones?

Trish can survive Mundus' death beams but not some bullets?

Trish can smack around Dante, but not Lady?

Lady even says she feels like shes fighting another human, but we know for a fact that Trish's capabilities in strength and durability FAR exceed that of a humans. That is proof she was holding back.

The beam that Dante deflected AFTER Sparda gave him power. The beam from a god level character who could only be beaten by power from another god level character.

If you are going to say that bullets=/=laser death beams from god-tiers i dont know what to tell you.

Never denied that bullets hurt him. They do insignificant damage, but this was never about bullets hurting. I dont know how many times i clarified that humans cant hurt Dante in melee combat.

Anime episode 1

That doesnt mean they kill humans. Their job is literally to protect humans from demons. Not once did they kill a normal human, regardless of how evil they were.

I dont think humans can adequately weild DA'S

Yea... Any character with Pandora could have a really big potential regarding the weapons...

Trish saw her from the building, she did not knew a thing about her. There was no way for her to know what Lady was capable of. She only saw her taking down on a motorbike, yet she started the whole thing by Firing Lighting at her... Lighting! We all know how fast this thing is.

"She didnt hit Lady even though she was at point blank range." That whole action didnt made sense from a logical point of view.
Either Lady have superhuman durability... Trish possesed ability for her lighting to ignore humans and just harm "objects (since the roof was destroyed and Lady was in front of her)"... or the anime have a lot of stupidy in it. 

You say that but Trish "who was capable of lifting small vehicle" wasnt capable of breaking Lady like a "twig"... Even if you say that she was "holding back"...

Trish was barely able to HOLD V in DMC 5. V! And when she was holding him and preventing him from falling into the ground (And dying) she was struggling a lot. She made groans as if it were causing her problems.

Trish is bad at strategy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We have also established that the whole scene with roof-blowing and Lady standing in the point blank range doesnt make any sense. Trish doesnt have a single way (as we are aware) in which her lighting could somehow avoid Lady (that stands in front of her) yet destroy the roof. 
We also know that Trish was firing bullets powered up with lighting and lighting waves at Lady during the first night, without knowing what Lady was fully capable of. Lady managed to dodge it. So either Trish lighting is super slow, or Lady have superhuman reflex and speed.

Any quote from Trish that states that?

I will agree with the ground punch here.... however damage done on different surfaces could be measured in this case, since DMC shop is using wooden planks. She wasnt punching him in the way Beo was, so point for you.

You've stated at the start that the bullets cant hurt Dante, so I am clarifying things.

The whole "Sneak attack" and "stun during paralyss" is more likely.

"Showing that she wasnt afraid for her life." It is your speculation.

The fact is that Dante had her on the ground on point-blank range and she had to say that she's not his enemy.

Just wanted to throw something there, that we both can agree on.

True, yet at the same time, they are sticking to certain facts.. regarding series.

It's more or so grounded in the newest games/anime/books/manga. Mine (and many others people in the fandom) opinion about Trish has been strongly influenced by them.
Right now we see her as someone who is not just.. not strong. Dont get me wrong, she can take down a few lesser demons, but that's it.
As a reason of my statement I will use example of Cavaliere Angelo on Elder Greyon.
She was easily defeated by the weakest protagoinst (V), who also stated that he cant beat Malphas and Gilgamesh. 
Meaning? Malphas and Gilgamesh > Cavaliere (and therefore Trish). 
Before you say that Cavaliere is not Trish.. and is not on the same spectrum of power...
Even Dante talks to Cavaliere and points out that it is indeed Trish. ("This clothes doesnt suit you" "I forgot how scary you are when you get angry") He even comments that she doesnt stand a chance against him.  
Why am I bringing this up? 
To solidify my remark that Trish wouldnt stand a chance against a lot of bosses.

Yet she can barely lift V. She shouldnt be able to break Lady's bones.

Considering how she barely surived that ONE shoot and a single bullet can wound her as well.. It's safe to assume that few bullets would be able to kill her.

Trish can smack "paralysed" Dante around. Not Lady apparently.

Or a proof that Trish is indeed not that powerful and even some humans can get to that level.

Or.. DMC3 Vergil.. if he wasnt tired from Dante fight.
Gods in DMC arent really that strong.

A lot of bullets = laser from a guy who wasnt even in his final form.

You probably made a mistake at the start stating that they cant hurt him. So I wanted to clarify it with you.

DMC 2. Dante was going for the kill on Arius when he was still a human.
He hangs out with Lady that killed yet another human, her father.

Look above

During their night time confrontation, there is no proof that those were kill shots. Its likely they werent since Trish doesnt kill humans. She had a plethora of opportunities to kill Lady and she didnt. Sje also watched Lady take down 3 demons so she had a decent idea what Lady is capable of.

• She could have fired a continuous stream of lightning
• She could have blown up the motorcycle next to Lady
• She could have destroyed the building with Lady inside,
• She could have shot Lady in the back/electrocuted her/thrown her off the roof but instead disarmed her.

It does make sense because Trish was waiting for Dante to show up and explain who she was to Lady. Trish complains that Dante was late.

Shown not to be the case more than once.

Or the fact that Trish wasnt trying to kill Lady so she intentionally missed. Trish called Dante after her forst confrontation with Lady and knew who she was and wasnt trying to kill her.

Holding back means not using the full extent of one's capabilities

She was struggling to ground herself properly to pull him up do to the earthquake happening aroumd them.

Its called not shooting straight at Lady... her aint doesnt need to be off by miles to not hit Lady.

Watch episode 4 when Dante shows up to the church. There is an entire 2.5 mins of exposition.

Never said that. But due please try and quote where i did.

If you believe casually walking around when at gunpoint doesnt mean that someone isnt afraid i dont know what to tell you.

The fact is she is a demon who knows Dante's "secret mission" who just elctrocuted the crap out of him, stabbed him, and threw a motorcycle at him. He had no reason to believe that she wasnt an enemy and could have killed her halfway through her sentence. A sentence that she didnt start until after she was up and moving and someone who Dante still had more than valid reasons not to trust and to kill on the spot.

The pachinko machines are incredibly loose retellings.

More grounded? Things look more realistic sure but the feats and whatnot are just as over-the-top as before.

We? You are the only person ive seen legitimitely argue that Trish is equal to Lady.

V defeated Geryon. Cavaliere didnt fight using all of his techniques and abilities. V collapsed right after. His fight with Geryon.

V said Gilgamesh was a little more than he could take on "right now." What did he just do? Spend a lot of energy fighting Niddgog. Griffon was surprised that V was choosing not to fight Gilgamesh.

Griffon called Malphas "more trouble" when V was healthy. It wasnt until he was weaker and dying that he was unable to fight Malphas.

Because Cavaliere cant beat Dante, Trish cant be any bosses? Last i check only God-tiers stood a chance against Dante in 5.

Except we know from numerous instances that Trish more powerful than humans in every aspect. Ive already explained she wasnt fighting to kill Lady, just stall for Dante to arrive.

Watch lesser demons survive hailstorms of bullets in the anime and games. Trish is more powerful that lesser demons.

Comparing bullets to Mundus' attacks is absurd

Mundus hadnt fully recovered at that time. BTN clarified that.

The man who was wellversed in the black arts, had demonic power, killed people, attempting to become a fullblown demon, and almost opened the gate to hell? He was far from a normal human.

The man who was wellversed in the black arts, had demonic power, killed people, attempting/attempted/succeeded in becoming a fullblown demon, and opened the gate to hell? He was far from a normal human.

Im going to continue this discussion on a new thread to keep this one topic

There's also not a single solid proof that she was going easy on her either. Everything you go is based on speculation about "what she could do" but she didnt. We dont have a single comment in which Trish/or anyone else stated that she was going easy on her. Not a single one.

No... It doesnt make any sense for Lady to not get hit by a thunder from her palm, yet the roof getting destroyed. You could argue that it would made sense if the thunder avoided her and it was showcased.. but it never was.

Then my other point seems to be more correct.

You keep saying and saying that, but you really dont have a single proof for it. Just a speculation based on your own personal views regarding characters. Give me a solid statement from someone, anyone that Trish was not trying to kill her. Otherwise we both can take our guesses for eternity.

Yea.. I will call this one a 100% headcanon and speculation. Even with everything that happened around them, SHE should be capable of throwing him without any troubles. Yet she can hear that she Struggles, A LOT.

If you rewatch that scene, the thunder went straight into the place in which Lady was. It would have hit her if it wasnt for her dodge.

In which Dante and Trish are stating that sometimes you have to test the true strenght of people you will work with and you dont go easy of them. And also that Lady gave Trish way more troubles than her normal quarry. So... You say that she was holding back. I say based on this that she was going all out to test everything that Lady had.

Here you've said this about Trish. I kinda wrote "Dante" instead of "Trish above, so my bad. "LegionZero wrote: Trish survived Mundus' death beam. A few bullets wont hurt her."

You're trying to apply a humans logic to a demon. Quite frankly you dont know what to tell me in a lot of cases.

And he could but he didnt. Why? I dunno. That's not the point.

Everything that I've said above pachinko machines/and spin-offs still stands.

• Not quite. The only feat Trish have on her own is throwing Sparda sword and struggling with holding V.
• The biggest feat that Urizen have is the "Shaking the whole earth" according to Nico's notes... Nothing even remotely close to the infamous "creation of universe by Mundus" that is on in his description on this wiki.

Here? That might be true. However I tend to sit in a lot of websites and discord servers... You know the r/DevilMayCry twitter right? I am sitting on their discord server (can link you if you want) they currently have 5k members.. and there's a lot of people stating that Trish has been nerfed to the level of Lady due to new parts of DMC franchise.

Yet he wanted to rushed on Cavaliere before collapsing. Cavaliere on the other hand was running away. That's example that Cavaliere was afraid of loosing and V was confident in his abilities.

You could argue that V "spend too much energy fighting Nidhogg" if he was actually ... fighting him and not his minions. There's not a single quote stating that V got tired. "Right now" could simply mean that as V, Vergil is not capable of defeating him. That's my speculation and it's just as correct as yours. Hell Griffon even comments that meeting Gilgamesh is not "good". Griffon was surprised that V was choosing not to fight Gilgamesh. But at the same time from a little exchange that we have Griffon was not certain in his

Yet Griffon never called Cavaliere a trouble even when he was on Geyron. That's actually solidifes my argument.

Not my point at all.. my point was to showcase that Cavaliere => Trish, but okay.

And I've explained that while she was fighting Lady she went a bit over the top and had a real trouble. Lady was far more than what she thought she will be and she gave her a real challenge.

If we're using in-game mechanics as feats... Lady can survive a fully powered up attack from Dante's rebellion in DMC 3. If we're using cutscenes from games.. in majority of them, our heroes are capable of destroying demons with one shoot.

And Vergil wasnt at full strenght either. Yet BTN states that Mundus wasnt capable of fully controlling Vergil,

They still were humans physically. If you're talking about not killing "good humans" then say so from the start.

okay link it.

Gomna be closing this thread because we havent been talking about Rebby for a LONG time.