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I'm not sure what you mean about "English:" you don't need that many definite articles when you're only talking about one distinct thing with a proper-noun name (You'd use "the sword" or "Rebellion," but "the Rebellion" is redundant, since there is no other Rebellion you could be talking about so you do not need to point to that one), "mirror" is an extremely vague term that sounds more like it has the power to reflect the power of Yamato than that it has the opposite power, and "assimilates himself with his inherent power" is pure word salad.
As for DSD, saying it's simultaneous doesn't reflect the events in the game. Dante turns into his SDT form after fusing Sparda and what's left of Rebellion (which is certainly not "half" of it, it's the hilt and a little pointy bit of blade), but he doesn't manifest Devil Sword Dante for the first time until he's hovering in front of Urizen, just after Griffon carries Nero away.
Rebellion is Dante's trademark sword in every entry in the series except the original Devil May Cry.
Pondering the abilities of the Yamato to divide, Dante deduces that Rebellion likely has the inverse power, and impales himself upon the blade. He is proven right as the sword combines with his inherent power while simultaneously fusing with the Devil Sword Sparda. This allows him to unleash his true power, and later to summon a new blade, Devil Sword Dante, into existence.
Dante is impaled with the blade, with his blood inadvertently awakening the sword's true power along with his demonic powers, and granting him access to Devil Trigger.
Each of those sound very awkward in English. One of the primary faults is reusing the same word multiple times in the same sentence or paragraph (ex. "power"), which sounds very unnatural in English.
> you don't need that many definite articles when you're only talking about one distinct thing with a proper-noun name
There is a single citation where "Rebellion" is used without "the", and that cite then immediately uses "the Devil Sword Dante". The majority of the game's script uses "the Rebellion, the Yamato, the Devil Sword Sparda". Even DMC1 uses "the Force Edge". It's the standard in-publication way to refer to the swords, and a standard way to refer to swords, weapons, ships in the real world.
> "mirror" is an extremely vague term that sounds more like it has the power to reflect the power of Yamato than that it has the opposite power
It doesn't say "power to mirror", it says "mirroring power" (and "power to reflect the power of Yamato" is already a very anime way of interpreting words). That's standard usage of the word. It does not, however, have an inverse power (it doesn't reverse what Yamato does), and that's why the vagueness is intentional -- it is clearly the black to Yamato's white, but they are not strict inverses.
If you like, "complement" may be a better, more precise term.
> and "assimilates himself with his inherent power" is pure word salad.
It's exactly what's going on in the scene, and the obvious intent of Dante comparing the Rebellion's function to the Yamato's. Willingly stabbing himself with the Rebellion brings Dante, not the sword itself, in touch with his true power, Sin Devil Trigger -- mirroring how Vergil stabbing himself with the Yamato separates himself from his demonic power (or, as Vergil would interpret it, separating his human weakness from his demonic self).
> which is certainly not "half" of it, it's the hilt and a little pointy bit of blade
"Consisting of some indefinite portion resembling a half; approximately a half, whether more or less; partial; imperfect. "
> but he doesn't manifest Devil Sword Dante for the first time until he's hovering in front of Urizen
He calls it to hand in front of Urizen. The citations and script clearly communicate that it was forged at the same time as SDT was unlocked.
"The" isnt necessary at all for weapons, the source material doesnt even use it consistantly. If it used it should be used sparingly.
Yes, this. All of the Swordmaster move summaries just say "with Rebellion equipped," "with Sparda equipped," etc, as do their descriptions (Prop: "Whip Rebellion around in a high-rev spin, launching the enemy upward") and the actual descriptions of the sword (sourced) all call it "Rebellion," not "The Rebellion." DSD's description also uses "Sparda" and "Rebellion" without "the" and only uses "the" for DSD because there is more than one thing called "devil sword" (it is "a devil sword" in the first paragraph).
More to the point, it's not grammatically necessary. Look at this as an example:
"Lady uses a rocket launcher called Kalina Ann." "Lady uses a rocket launcher called the Kalina Ann."
All "the" does in the second sentence is make it clunkier and slightly more confusing as your brain tries to figure out what that superfluous "the" is doing there before it figures out the answer is "nothing." The purpose of a definite article in a sentence is to clarify that you mean that one (ie, a thing previously designated as the subject) rather than some other thing of the same type. Thus later in the article you could use "the rocket launcher" to indicate you're talking about the established rocket launcher called Kalina Ann rather than something else, but you never need "the Kalina Ann" because it's self-isolating as the name of a unique thing.
Also come on, KrytenKoro, you're talking about repetition in a sentence while having "himself with his" there?
As LegionZero pointed out, your complaint about "himself" and "his" is bizarre.
"I don't really like "assimilates himself," though, that's kind of...weird?"
Put "his human identity" with it, if you want. The point is he's unlocking a part of his demon side that was previously buried away within himself, and merging it with the rest of him.
"If it used it should be used sparingly."
Sure, that's fine. It already was used sparingly, in my opinion at least, and Tim's edits to remove it did weird things like adding awkward uses of colons. Several of the uses of "the Rebellion" that were disputed were also adjacent to cites using that exact phrasing.
"More to the point, it's not grammatically necessary"
It does make it less awkward to read, though, as "Rebellion" is a proper noun in this context, but not in general English. For anyone reading the article aloud, it's a bit messier.
"All "the" does in the second sentence is make it clunkier and slightly more confusing as your brain tries to figure out what that superfluous "the" is doing there before it figures out the answer is "nothing." "
Because you're putting it after "called". That's not what "the" is used for when it's used to refer to weapons or ships.
I don't see how that example really differs: all that having "the" on the front does is make you go "what, as opposed to some other Kalina Ann which is a rocket launcher?" You don't need it there, it doesn't do anything.
This does also apply to things like ship names and weapon names. You can say "We set sail tomorrow on Titanic" and it's not going to confuse anyone. You only really need a "the" on weapon names that are generic (the Shotgun) or sound like descriptions (the Grenadegun or Needlegun). Talking about "the Artemis" or "the Nightmare-β" and it's again a case of what is that "the" actually doing there.
Also re: assimilates, the problem is that it isn't a word that really corresponds to any action a person can do. Also, "the sword assimilates himself with his inherent power" is messy, it sounds like "he" is the sword and looks like it's a typo and should be "itself," because assimilating ("absorbing") yourself with your own power makes no sense.
"Intrinsic function" is similar: it's way too technical-sounding and "function" seems the wrong word: the function of a sword is hitting things. You could probably just drop that entirely and say "culminating in him using the sword."
The rule you're talking about re: repetition is for creative writing, not documenting things. If you're trying to be clear on a concept, you don't vary up words to make the sentence jazzier, you use the same word as many times as it's the right word. You don't want something like a history text to start talking about how the "British battleships" fought the "large German warships" at Jutland, because when you use a different term in documentary text the reader is going to assume it's not the same concept.
"You only really need a "the" on weapon names that are generic (the Shotgun) or sound like descriptions (the Grenadegun or Needlegun)."
...like the Rebellion? Which sounds like a common noun?
"it's way too technical-sounding and "function" seems the wrong word: the function of a sword is hitting things."
It's a critical plot point of the game that that is not the primary function of the Rebellion. It's not merely a power or ability, either -- it is the purpose and primary feature of the sword.
"all that having "the" on the front does is make you go "what, as opposed to some other Kalina Ann which is a rocket launcher?""
You keep claiming this, and it's yet to ring true for me, and doesn't fit with the countless examples of "the" being used in front of weapons and ships both within DMC and in the wider culture.
"You can say "We set sail tomorrow on Titanic" and it's not going to confuse anyone"
That's a really weak argument to use, considering what results you get if you actually google "Set sail on Titanic" vs. "set sail on the Titanic", including the content of those results. The context illustrates that "the Titanic" is treated as the more natural phrasing.
You keep trying to claim that it's unnecessary and confusing, but the game (when referring to the sword in prose, not mechanical descriptions) and the wider English language both illustrate that using "the" is not only natural, but preferred.
I'll freely agree that the game does omit the "the" in prose occasionally, and that it is not unacceptable to write it without the "the". But if you're trying to make an argument that the article as written was wrong or needed to be corrected, you're not accomplishing that. The fact that the in-game script frequently uses "the Rebellion" should have illustrated from the beginning that this was an irrational quibble to make, and it's boggling my mind that the argument so far has been "there are a few cases where the prose, as well as the technical text, does not use the, therefore it's wrong to use it at all". Clearly the game is comfortable referring to the sword by stating "the Rebellion". Why are we trying to tell the game that it is wrong about itself?
"The rule you're talking about re: repetition is for creative writing, not documenting things."
We're documenting a fictional story in the first place, and describing the events therein. It should have a similar tone to creative writing.
They were not the same concept. At all. They were both using entirely different connotations of the word "power", and that is the specific reason why repeatedly using that word in the same paragraph leads to confusion. It's the opposite of clear on the concepts being communicated.
Rebellion doesn't sound like a common noun, because it's associated as being the name of a sword in the lede. "Grenadegun," on the other hand, is the name of a grenade gun. The only way you would have a point here is if it was a sword called "Sword." And yes, in that case you would absolutely have to do it the same way.
You keep going back to "well the game does it sometimes." So what, it also doesn't do it a lot more times, and you can't make any argument for why it's actually a good idea to attach definite articles to something that is self-isolating aside from appeals to popularity.
Documentation should never have a "similar tone" to creative writing. You're not trying to wow people with your command of language, you're trying to give who, what, where, why, when and how, as clearly as you possibly can.
And nonsense, it's the sword's power ("the ability or capacity to do something or act in a particular way") and Dante's power ("the ability or capacity to do something or act in a particular way"), it's exactly the same thing. I mean nevermind that right above what you changed is a laundry list of citations that all talk about Rebellion's "power" rather than its "intrinsic function." Is this one of those "we have to go with what the citations say, except when I don't want to" arguments?
If you have a problem with my file names, instead of just going in and tagging all my uploads with file rename sugestions, tell me, what would be a better way of setting up my file names? I'll be honest, it feels like your going out of your way to undo my edits and uploads with the things you do.
Please, tell me, what can I do to make my contributions better and more suitable to wiki standards? And please, don't try and be an admin talking to a worker, level with me and explain it to me in a person-to-person sort of way.
It's a maintenance template, and it means that we have an image that should probably be kept on the wiki, but eventually ( and I do want to stress, eventually) needs to be moved. It is not urgent by any means, and if the delete template is not actually on the image, it is in no danger of deletion.
As far as naming, the current standard is "image-identifier source-of-origin". So, something like "Dante (Rebellion DT) DMC3.gif". Which, yes, it's not currently the name being used because when I first uploaded those images I used a different naming standard, which is no longer applicable with the images and community we have now.
For licensing, images should always note where they came from, and if they have been modified, how. We can't just put categories on them -- technically, and I know it sounds ridiculous but it is true and we can get into trouble for it, an image that does not credit its creator is considered infringing.
For the "remake" template, basically the ideal is that images be cleanly ripped or screenshotted (using an in-system screenshotter, not secondhand using cameraphone or youtube or what have you) from the HD versions of the games, uploaded in png (or gif for animations) to avoid loss of quality. Obviously, we also accept the images that Capcom has published for promotional purposes.
So, for example, I'd expect to see something like:
File:DMC - Dante 02.png -- renamed to "Dante (model) DMC.png", with a license stating that it was taken from a screenshot of DMC, then cropped and transparencied by User:Ixbran (assuming you did it). If you took it secondhand from someone else's screenshot or video, you would need to credit them as well. The image would retain the "remake" template until we could recreate it from an HD screenshot, or using a direct model ripper such as XNALara (and honestly, I would really advise you to investigate that software, because I feel like you would enjoy it and be able to do very many helpful things with it).
File:DMC3 - Sparda and Sons.png -- renamed to "whatever the official name of the artwork is DMC3.png", and preferably it would be an in-system screenshot from the HD version.
Alright, Its just most wikis ive been on do a "Game - Name - Count" sort of thing. Thats why the pics ive done always are named by Game, character name, then in the event theres more than one, what number they are. Thats why my lucia pictures all have an 01 or 02 at the end of them. She has two renders, two DT renders, ect.
And yea, for the most part, the transparency pictures ive been uploading are edits i've done. Lucia's DT pics came from high res magazine scans that are uploaded to this wiki, same with the Lucia pics. Most of them I've gotten from this wiki as Jpegs, and then edited them into .png's after removing the backgrounds.
The Sparda and Sons one comes from the DMC3 gallery mode, from a youtube video, and as far as i can tell none of the pictures in the games galleries have official names. I gave it the name I felt best fit with the image's context. As for image licencing, if I had known you had a lisencing template you put on images, I would have done so. I dont think ive ever seen one on any of the images this wiki has, so that is why I haven't included them. For that I apologize.
Also, regarding this wiki wordmark image. I understand your reasoning's for it to be deleted, its upload is meant to only be temporary anyway. You stated that it shoudl have just been uploaded over the pre-existing wordmark, but thing is I tried that. Only those with access to the media editing programs on the wiki can upload it, IE an admin like you. I can't upload it over the current word mark, and I need you, or one of the other admins, to do it on my behalf.
And if you can, please credit Omniance in the upload. He was the one who made the edits to the DMC2 logo to remove the 2, and touched up the word "Wiki" to match the text style of the logo.
right, from now on when i have ideas for templates and such like that, with the wiki wordmark, ill use the same upload. I had initially uploaded the second version in order to make a new comment to show it off while talking with LegionZero, so they could compare the two versions side by side.
alrighty then, thats something ill try to keep in mind.
Also, thanks for talking with me about this, its nice getting to know fellow editors on a wiki, on a personal level, like this. It really helps me to better understand where people are coming from when they do or say something.
So I recently rendered this Arkham render, removed a pitch black background, and wanted to run it by you, in terms of proper file naming. Is this the apropriate file name type? I went by your previous statement.
Also, I apologize if the shape is odd. I made it so it is the same general size as the Jester image, so both can appear within his pages template, in the tab thing, without his picture being so skinny that it'd make the template re-size its self when switching tabs. That sort of thing always gave me an irritated itch.
Oh I know, all about the 400x350px thing, im just saying, his image is far too thin, and in order for both pictures to be part of the character template, we would have to either deal with the table constantly changing when switching tabs, or have both images be way too small in order to keep the template from changing sizes. I figured it wouldnt hurt giving them the same dimensions, if only for the sake of the template.
and yeah, im glad you approve of the name type. I also applied the "rename image" category to the jester picture since its file name is simply Jester.png.
I'm not sure why the template would be changing sizes, can you provide an imgur screenshot maybe? Using any variation of x350px should put a stop to template resizing. If it doesn't, then the template might need to have a set width added.
Just wondering, must it be "exactly" like the example page? That is an episode for an animated series page, while the Chronicles of Vergil is a comic book. Would you mind explaining it with a little more detail?
They have similar articles for comic book issues, but no, it doesn't need to be exactly the same format -- there's just a lot more room for coverage. We can talk about artistic errors, we can talk about continuity, we can talk about how the book was published, etc.(ಠ_ೃ)Bully! 01:36, April 26, 2015 (UTC)