Talk: Protectors

Book quotes

In devil may cry 2, when starting each stage, players are given a quote from a book called The Protectorate. I never understood it before, not until now. If you want, I'll post the books quotes here on the wiki, I just need to do a quick play-through on both Dante and Lucias disks.
Ixbran (talk) 18:59, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

Actually I believe its Guidepost of the Protecter. I think it's on on the wiki already. LegionZero (talk) 19:03, April 9, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, it is. Pretty much all text in the first four games is in my userspace.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 02:06, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

Deletion

I don't remember ever seeing the term "Protectorate" in the game. The quotes are from the "Guidepost to the Protector", parallel to the "Guidepost to the Hunter", and are clearly referencing Dante and Lucia specifically. At best, this article is completely redundant to Vie de Marli. The article also has claims like that the Protectorate was composed of "half demon female hunters", which is not in evidence. Lucia, for example, is not actually a descendant of the clan -- she's an adoptee, so nothing about her can be said to apply to the clan. The prologue also does not say that the clan members joined to create a peaceful pagan society, merely that they were fleeing persecution.

Basically, everything within this article appears to be either completely misinterpreted, or redundant to existing articles. I propose immediate deletion, but leave it to the current active admins to see if they can find anything worth rescuing.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 02:12, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

The Protectorate is mentioned in DMC2's official players guide that was approved by Capcom. Admin JayAaerow provided all the info him self using a copy he apparently owns.

You know, rather than just asserting your status as an admin to delete and change things you don't approve of, try asking around and see who/why put the information they did. It would make you come off as someone who actually deserves the title of Admin, and not one who just abuses it because they can.
Ixbran (talk) 02:24, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

1. No personal attacks. Final warning.
2. If it's not properly cited, it can be removed at any time. It is the responsibility of the one adding claims to provide evidence, not the ones curating that info.
3. Bradygames guides are not canon. Provide a canon source, or this should be at best a note on the Vie de Marli page. The fact that the Bradygames guide badly mangles the name of the clan should be evidence enough.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 03:01, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

Provide a "Canon" source? You do realize Brady games has Capcom's official stamp, right? That means it's official whether or not you think it is canon. And don't forget, this is a japanese game. Translation is going to be different and naming will not always be consistent. Vidu Marli and Vive de Marli are the same thing. How do you know the game's translation is accurate? Do you know Japanese. The guide is the one that provided the name. It runs concurrent with the information provided in the instruction manual.

These claims come from the game guide itself. I've already uploaded pictures about the "claim" that it's composed of female devil hunters. And that part about Lucia being a descent is not true on the fact by blood but in the game itself, adoptee are apparently still considered "descendants".

And no, this shouldn't be on the Vie De Marli. This is an entire clan. It deserves it's own page instead of merged with a page detailing a location. And it's not redundant because this information is completely new. This is detailing about the clan and I hadn't finish my edits on it. Because right now, I'm dealing with people who are calling this into question because this was not "in the game" and for a franchise, everything here is either non-canon or incorrect. I'm refraining from editing until this is sort out. {{SUBST:User:JayAaerow/Sig}}19:47,4/10/2015

Does Brady games have sources? Who did they get this information from? Just because Capcom approves of it doesn't mean that Capcom fact checked the book, it just means they are allowing the book to be published. LegionZero (talk) 20:11, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

The pages people don't bother looking.

If it's published by Capcom, then they themselves accept the information provided. The video-games work in the same format. They also have their official stamp on it. Why do you think it's there in the first place? That lets you know they accept whatever is in there. Stamps cannot just be put there for look (Copyright-related/Licensing issues) It's a sure-way of knowing what Capcom accepts. If they publish it, that's all you need to know.

If Brady Games makes a Guide and it has Capcom's stamp, then you have to assume they asked some sort of representative because they couldn't get out the door without it (Apparently, the author begged to make this game guide to his editor-in-chief). They're not obligated to actually tell because they're trusted enough to handle whatever information is given by Capcom or however they do this. There's the very last page in which they list their acknowledgement and all that legal stuff no one looks at. Capcom's trademark is also mentioned. That's how, legally, they let you know it's official and the company approves of it 1000000%. And companies don't really care so much If people take it as fact cause legally, they've done all they can. So If people don't, that's them.

Sorry, but there's no place in which Capcom conveniently lists out what's canon and how to look. You have to go by actually looking at things by actually obtaining it and seeing for yourself. I never thought I'd have to be so technical having to explain how something is "official" enough. XD {{SUBST:User:JayAaerow/Sig}}20:46,4/10/2015

The Capcom trademarks is for the names of things pertaining to Capcoms IP within the guide. They have to acknowledge that Capcoms logo, and DMC belong to Capcom. The book belongs to Brady. They make no mention of anyone from Capcom verifying any of that information in their acknowledgements, or that the author consults anyone from Capcom regarding background information on the story. Its a game guide, not a character or story bible, its purpose is to tell us how to beat the game, not exposition of story. LegionZero (talk) 21:24, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

But it's not uncommon for game guides to do that. Instruction Manual work the same way. They're suppose to tell you the basic of playing the game, yet sometimes give you background on the characters you play us or the story, despite being called an instruction manual. I've own the game guide for Ninja Gaiden and Prince of Persia. They do the same thing to list an example or two from a video-game franchise and their wiki accept it. There's more then one way to express a story or give info. The info provided on the Protectorate was just an extension of Lucia's background and her role in the game.

What's the point of playing video-games? Sure. To have fun. But it's also a fun format to tell stories. It's risen above it's technical use. Games Guides and Instruction Manuals sometimes do a little bit more by giving background info so you know who the character is and what they're about. Or basic information. They rise a bit above their technical uses. Nobody is saying they're character/story bibles. But they provide information.

I cannot provide anymore information. According to Capcom's own policies on their official web site policies page or somewhere....If it has their stamp, they're by all means official. And to have something with their stamp on...they'll sure as heck look at it first. They don't want false information or whatever put into it and people taking it as fact. That's pretty bad business idea to not look at what's published under a companies name. But I digress. I cannot prove any information such as a guy going "YUP! I looked at it." conveniently.

Game Guides can be wrong at times....but that doesn't mean they're always. And the companies come out at some point and state If something was wrong. If this strategy guide was inaccurate as you claim it to be, Capcom would of long stated something. This game guide has been around since 2003. {{SUBST:User:JayAaerow/Sig}}21:47,4/10/2015

(EDIT) I also forgot to mention: One they get permission, they don't have to actually go acknowledge who'm they asked If it's a company. This is partially why fans in media hates when a certain someone, whether it's video-games, novels, animation, etc. does something not liked. Cause they have to "accept" it in a official format, no matter how much they hated it. And wonder who authorized it. You'll find you can't get the names of the people. And If I recall anyway, a company is looked at as an "individual" of a sort in a legal stance, despite not being just one person. There's a certain term I learned about that....but I can't remember. {{SUBST:User:JayAaerow/Sig}}21:55,4/10/2015

Except the instruction manuals came from Capcom. The guide, however, did not. That copywrite in the back is not for the magazine, its for Capcoms logo and DMC IP. Nothing here suggests Capcom had a hand in making this magazine issue. From a IRS standpoint it is its own legal entity but doesn't even say they spoke to Capcom. I've seen yputube videos use that same copywrite disclaimer. It doesn't hold up. LegionZero (talk) 22:01, April 10, 2015 (UTC)

Not true. Youtube videos with that use the disclaimer fairuse iirc. I'm not sure what game guides do, but it's not that. Companies Brady Games and Prima games are called "Specialty Publishing Houses". They're considers just as official. Capcom relay it to trustworthy people to do so. That's why the copyright stuff is in the Brady Book as well as their stamp. Capcom didn't do the dubbing for The DMC anime. Funimation did. But we use whatever phrases stated as fact. Higher-up Capcom people cannot sit down and do everything and confirm everything. They have MULTIPLE GAME SERIES. They relay it to certain authors, teams, division, etc. Some are in the company. Some are not. But as long as they have the permission, they're legally considered official. {{SUBST:User:JayAaerow/Sig}}22:12,4/10/2015

EDIT: I changed my mind on this matter. If you want to delete it, then by all means: go right ahead. I'm through arguing, debating, etc. Whatever you think I'm doing. I'm not here on this wiki to cause controversy through my contributions. I apologize for these inconvenience. I added this because I found this in a source I found to be official. I added this for a variety of reason: We're a wiki so I think you'd want this mentioned. I also though it be nice for it to have it's own page. It detail more about the world of DMC and it's unique universe. I find this stuff cool. I'd thought this contribution would amuse or catch editors interests. Instead, I cause controversy and questioned at every turn.

So I apologize. So far, most of my contribution on the in-universe content of DMC wiki causes nothing but trouble. From now on, I will only manage things such as sources, policies, guidelines, etc. crafted from the more experience admins of this wiki since there's rules to this I may not now. I will refrain from adding anymore in-universe content. I wanted to pride myself as being the person willing to look into the cracks and crevices of DMC for information previously lost or unknown and was even willing to spend actual money just to provide information on all things DMC so this wiki can pride itself in having every single information known to DMC and look like a truly epic wiki. {{SUBST:User:JayAaerow/Sig}}23:00,4/10/2015

Since this goes into issues of canonicity, the fact is that LegionZero is right -- the Bradygames "official" remit simply doesn't operate as you're suggesting. They have been officially licensed as "the" guide for the game, but that does not mean that Capcom has approved whatever they're publishing to be considered part of the franchise.(ಠ_ೃ) Bully! 05:26, April 11, 2015 (UTC)