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What's relevant?Edit

I'm not sure the information on this page contributes meaningfully to the wiki. It seems like we've just cut and pasted the topics from the viral promo site, and there's not much there that actually relates to DmC. Also, people keep wanting to add stuff about Fox News. I don't think it's appropriate to include information about the real-life channel here, either. I'm in favor of shrinking this article severely. --Anobi 22:03, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

The reason the information for the Viral site was added is because Capcom has a Habit of closing the Viral Sites, Trust me they have do it many time before and that Information is lost for good. So to preserve the information from the Viral Site I copied it here.
As for adding information from Fox News, people are just grasping at similarity's between the two stations. They have nothing in common and are in no way tied to each other. -=X Zero X=- 22:09, May 24, 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for the delayed response. I kind of forgot about this. ^_^; While it's nice to know you're concerned about preserving every detail about the game, we don't need to mirror the viral site on the wiki. The purpose of this wiki is to be comprehensive, not exhaustive. The page would do just fine to summarize the purpose of the viral site. --Anobi 04:56, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

ParodyEdit

This is to talk the discussion away from an "undoing" war. So far all evidence, from the game itself to what the developers have said, points to the fact that Raptor News Network is a parody of Fox News. Despite there being many different cable news outlets, only one in particular (Fox) is responsible for massive amounts of misinformation, and being hosted by loudmouth conservative. The developers have acknowledged it in all but name itself because they probably don't feel like getting sued by Newscorp. As I said, Raptor is Fox, and Bob Barbas is Bill O'Reilly, and it's painfully obvious if you know anything about the two :/

The references to it parodying Fox should be left up because there is way more information that points to it being true than what contradicts it. Derekoe|Hot-blooded God of Guns| (talk) 22:33, August 30, 2012 (UTC)

I'm not going to argue with you over the parody (you're most likely right), but don't you think you're taking it too far? Exactly how the hell is Barbas a conservative for example? All we've seen him do is lash out at Dante! That's hardly a right wing ideology in itself, or any kind of ideology for that matter.
Following along that line, MSNBC's Hardball is hosted "by a very opinionated, liberal who feels he's always right in whatever he says on his show". Does that somehow make Barbas a liberal?
Well, "conservative" just in the way he's talked about values ("Just doin' God's work") and in the way that he depicts Dante in a non-conservative manner, like where Barbas explains Dante's supposed sexual deviancy as completely horrible thing (since sexual deviancy is against conservative values). Being a demon, Barbas is really probably not all that conservative (and probably has little to do with conservative values), but he plays the part to manipulate society.Derekoe|Hot-blooded God of Guns| (talk) 01:10, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
From everything Barbas has said, and what was on their "website," signs don't point to any sort of liberal mindset. However, the parody has less to do with any actual "conservative values," and much more about misinformation and manipulating societal trends, which (despite their conservative bent) Fox News is notorious for, and Raptor is very clearly echoing.Derekoe|Hot-blooded God of Guns| (talk) 01:10, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
(Also - remember to put FOUR of these ~ after your posts, so everyone knows who's talking)
This is exactly the type of political rhetoric we're trying to avoid on the Wiki. Please, please please please, please, do NOT post inflammatory political crap like this on the wiki, Derekoe. Your political views and opinions are your OWN, and should NOT be reflected by this wiki, no matter how right you think you are. We do not allow this kind of debate. We continue to remove the "Background" about RNN being related to Fox because it IS political, and it has already proven itself to be controversial. This wiki is about a game; it is not about taking sides in the political war. (Besides, NT is an European company. Who the hell are they to comment on an American news network?) --Anobi (talk) 01:18, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
(Derekoe, PLEASE don't mess up responses like that. Let them be posted chronologically.)
I have little right to participate in discussion, since I'm not American, but I tend to agree with Anobi. Regardless of whether you are right or not, it is a highly controversial topic. If you really want it included, the only way I see to prevent another edit war is to find some very good sources. Of the "video on Youtube where Tameem says that Raptor = Fox" calibre. If there is even slightest room for any debate, it will devolve into shouting again. My signature is NOT short! 01:43, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry if it seemed that way, as it wasn't my intent, but this has absolutely nothing to do with politics. Just because I used the word "conservative" doesn't mean anything. It's stated outrightly that Ninja Theory is satirizing "the world's societal ills," and one of those is the misinformation spread by a news network. Another is them being "enslaved by the banking system." It's also been stated that Dante also represents the disenfranchised youth of this generation, who are stuck having to deal with these societal ills, and are even fighting back. DmC is very mildly politically charged, if only because it draws the basis of its narrative from a current social commentary. These even aren't my views, these are NT's that they used for the game. Raptor is clearly parodying Fox because (as I said before) they are notorious for misinformation, Virility is a parody of FDA regulations over what gets put in our food, and it's probably a safe bet that when we hear about that banking system, it'll be parodying credit card usage, mortgages, and debt. Hell, The Order in DmC itself is essentially Anonymous, fighting against unjust and corrupt hierarchies.
It has literally nothing to do with politics, it's just the things the game is based on, and to not include the small bits of information about what they are parodying in the Wiki is like taking out all mention of the Divine Comedy. Or, more to the fact, all the political history between the White Guelphs against Pope Boniface should be removed as well, because of the politics there. What difference does it make that it's in the past or currently being experienced? A wiki is information, candid, open, and honest. Just because something references something vageuly sociopolitical shouldn't exclude it. It'd be like removing all religious references from the wiki to avoid starting some religious debate.
Seriously, nothing to do with politics beyond referencing what Ninja Theory themselves said they were parodying for the game. For a frame of reference, this is where it becomes very apparent that they're talking about parodying Fox News.Derekoe|Hot-blooded God of Guns| (talk) 01:55, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
Last I checked Derekoe, the Divine Comedy was not a touchy subject in this day and age. Nor are the White Guelphs or Pope Boniface; after all, they all came and went hundreds of years ago. The stuff you wrote, on the other hand, is quite controversial in today's society (whether or not they actually apply to the game or you're just looking too far into it), and I myself think this wiki is better off without it (for all the previously stated reasons). Hell, if anyone doesn't mind a little personal opinion (of the non-political variety) from someone who's actually going into the industry, I think the people at Ninja Theory (and Capcom) are idiots for choosing that kind of faux symbolism for DmC, as if the game hasn't proven controversial and polarizing enough already.
To summarize, this isn't the place for that kind of subject matter; people come onto this wiki to get info on Dante and Vergil, not draw on hypothetical comparisons between some demon news anchor and Bill O'Reilly.Wing Zero Alpha (talk) 07:32, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
And yet back in the day, the Guelphs were probably a pretty controversial subject as well. The point is that it shouldn't matter when it happened, it happened. The Divine Comedy was mentioned because it's a basis for the games, just as the "societal ills" basis is for DmC. It's part of the game's development, and as a wiki trying to give people all the information on anything and everything Devil May Cry, it should be included. You're refusing to put up something that was clearly stated by the developers themselves. There is no "hypothetical comparison," because they flat-out said it in all but name. What kind of respectable wiki would this be if we started cherry-picking what we allowed people to learn? Ironically, then we're no better than Raptor :p
How is this even controversial? It's just the truth, and not one I'm "thinking too far into." Ninja Theory said as much. Raptor News Network is based off "of cable news outlets, and one American news outlet in particular." That's straight from Alex Jones of Ninja Theory's mouth . Take a look at any video about that conference and the gameplay therein, amidst all the regular whining, everyone is mentioning Fox news in some way. If someone comes in to debate it, we have proof from the developer of what they are parodying, which instantly tells one that it's not just someone's sociopolitical views that they're slathering all over the wiki, it's information straight from the developer's mouth. The truth hurts sometimes :/
  • Again, this has nothing to do with politics, nor my own opinions, and never has. These are facts stated by the developers themselves about something that is so painfully obvious everyone already gets it anyway . My only opinion in this entire matter is that you're losing my respect for not including all the information, simply because you're worrited about some hypothetical controversy that may never come. We've dealt with worse here since the announcement of DmC anyway.Derekoe|Hot-blooded God of Guns| (talk) 16:32, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
(sigh) I'm just going to say my piece and leave it at that. Getting tired of arguing over something this stupid; in fact, I still can't believe I'm having this kind of argument over a Devil May Cry game.
Once more, you miss the point. The Guelphs were only a controversial group in the time of the Renaissance and don't carry the same controversy today; they're ancient history, no different from say the Boston Massacre. Ditto on the Divine Comedy; you can talk about it with any Catholic and they won't be offended, even though back in the day Aligheri wrote it it touched a lot of nerves.
 ::::::::::::Stuff like "social ills" as you call it, on the other hand, are controversial because they tend to offend people for all the wrong reasons. This is why games like Six Days in Fallujah were canned and Call of Juarez: The Cartel were slammed; they hit too close to home for too many people, and caused no end of contentions like the one we're having now. Once again, I can't help but wonder what the hell Ninja Theory was thinking in going this route; they already isolated their fanbase with their Dante redesign (I can only imagine how many people their Vergil redesign turned away). Turning their game into a social commentary piece (which is something Devil May Cry was never meant for) on modern "hot" issues (especially with faux symbolism) is only going to do more damage, which they can't afford right now.
Having said all that, again the wiki is better off without it, because it will only invite more unnecessary debate and edit wars like the one we just had. This isn't the proper place for that kind of forum; I've seen many websites that have been derailed by such topics, no matter how they may have applied to the sites' central themes. Besides, if the symbolism is as obvious as you claim, then logically, people wouldn't need to go on a wiki to learn about it.
As for your respect, after this entire episode, I don't give a certain piece of a rat's anatomy whether I have that or not. On that end, I find your rambling fairly ironic, because you sound a lot like your own description of Barbas through all of it. Especially the condescending attitude and "he think's he's always right" part.
Ja ne.Wing Zero Alpha (talk) 17:03, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
I'm not the one callig it "societal ills," that's straight from Ninja Theory, did you not even watch that video, or read any of those links? It's all right there. I'm relaying what Ninja Theory is saying. Flia even asked for proof if the information was to be put up, and I gave it - several times. It's there. This also isn't a forum for discussion, it's a wiki that compiles all DMC-related information, and we can't just cherry-pick what we want to put up because someone might get upset, or it's deemed "obvious." By your logic, if something is so obvious, then we should slim down the entire wiki, removing anything deemed obvious like character descriptions, story-related elements, and what items do - I mean, anyone playing the games obviously sees all of that, don't they?
And yes, it is retarded that there is this giant debate on the DMC wiki, because there should not have been any debate at all. There was facts plainly given as reference to verify the information that was put up. The only reason there is a debate is because someone didn't want to accept what came straight from the developer's mouth, and is accepted as truth by so many. And there's a big difference between Barbas and I; what I'm saying is the truth, and backed up by fact. Sorry if you think I'm condescending, but I'm giving out the facts that Flia (our admin) asked for in order for it to be put up.Derekoe|Hot-blooded God of Guns| (talk) 18:01, August 31, 2012 (UTC)
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