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  • Some of you may or may not have noticed that I was cooking a new template, Template:Top, for the last N days. You may also have noticed that I already added a version of it into the articles which have a /File, /Gallery, or /Transcript subpage, but I am thinking of taking it further.

    We have an excessive use of the Template:Youmay tophat, which is fugly and outdated, and anyway is just a symptom of a structuring problem. In almost all of the cases the use of that template boils down to two cases:

    • There is a demon and a respective Devil Arm;
    • There is a reboot version of a classic character.

    So I decided we need a dedicated tabber for those, as well.

    I already accommodated for that (you can see the current draft at Template:Top/Sandbox and how it will look like at this lovely Test page) on top of adding some new super duper neat styling to the tabber, but here comes the thing. In order for the template to work, it is best if all Devil Arm and DmC articles become subpages to the main article, like so:

    • Cerberus and Cerberus/Devil Arm;
    • Rebellion and Rebellion/DmC.

    This raises several problems.

    • Obviously, there is going to be a lot of renaming. Is there one or another reason I am not listing here why that would be a bad idea?
    • Different from File/Gallery/Transcript pages, to which nobody ever links except the main article, here it's going to be heckton of links to fix. Somewhat more manageable if I just leave redirects, but it's not the prettiest way to go about it.
    • This will merge the File pages for both the Devil Arm and the original demon, which isn't much of a problem since those are usually closely related anyway. This may be less acceptable regarding mixing classic and reboot files.
    • There are at least two sort of exceptions to the naming rule, Sparda and Dante. I say sort of, because the Sparda sword has been called just Sparda up until DMC5, where it acquired the fancy title of 'Devil Sword Sparda'; and I am not sure about merging Dante and DSD at all, although it makes some sense.
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    • There is one thing: the Rebellions in the classic series and the reboot are completely different ones. The rest of them are fine with me.

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    • In what sense different?

      Because I don't find it more different from classic Rebellion than reboot Dante is from classic Dante. Same amount of different to me.

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    • So you want to fuse Rebellion and DmC Rebellion galleries into one?

      Pls no.

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    • You have a point about fusing that. Hm.

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    • After some thinking, it looks to me like most of the problems with creating a tabber involving the reboot could be resolved by requesting a special namespace for it. If we had that, I could do it somewhere like this:

      • Classic Dante would have a link to reboot Dante, but also to his own File, Gallery, and possibly Devil Arm. So top will look something like: Dante, DmC:Dante, Dante/File, Dante/Gallery.
      • Reboot Dante will have a link to classic Dante, and his own File and Gallery. Top links will be: DMC:Dante, Dante, DmC:Dante/File, DmC:Dante/Gallery.

      I am kind of eh about the solution because I was already thinking of contacting Wikia stuff to remove the Gallery one (since I moved all of that to subpages instead), but this is the only easy way to solve the problem that won't require creating any manual overrides I can currently think of.

      Although on that note, a manual override shouldn't be too much of a hassle (there are only like half a dozen pages which have both classic and reboot versions)... provided the reboot continuity never gets a sequel.

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    • We shouldnt mix reboot and original. They are different characters/items with different histories/abilities/aethetics. Much like the reboot itself, the only thing they seem to have in common is the name. Is there a way to make one of those tabs a link to the reboot version and vice versa.

      Im not a fan of merging Devil Arm with characters since (in most cases) the subject of the DA and the character are different, but i suppose can live with it, as annoying as all the redirects will be. Over time that will probably resolve itself.

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    • > since (in most cases) the subject of the DA and the character are different

      I beg to differ. Most of DMC3 bosses turn into Devil Arms + King Cerberus from 5. It is the whole point that they are the same subject, just at different points in time.

      Hell, once upon a time those articles were actually merged.

      The only "exceptions" are Gilgamesh and Artemis, and Artemis actually IS created from Artemis the gun. Gilgamesh the demon and Gilgamesh the Devil Arm are still related by their root source, but we can make an exception for that if you wish.

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    • Can we not merge Reboot stuff, please... I really dont feel it. 

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    • Meshifuari, I spent a longer post just a bit earlier debating how I might resolve exactly that problem. I am well aware of the problem of mixing the two in the same page, but the concepts ARE related. There should be prettier ways to link to reboot concepts from classic articles and vice versa than that Youmay tophat.

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    • I acknowledge that technically demons and their respective demons are the same, while discussing them we tend to treat them as different entities. For example what does Cerberus look like? One of the first responses would probably clarification between Devil Arm or character.

      Or perhaps, what does Cerberus like to do? We can say Cerberus the character likes to eat ice-cream. Cerberus the Devil Arm doesnt like to do anything, its an inanimate object.

      I may be wrong but i view most Devil Arms as something made from a demon's soul rather than being said character in a different form.

      Either way that is probably semantics. The only issue i see is that merging the files/images makes it harder to find the relevant information. Scrolling/cycling through a bunch of info/images of Cerberus the demon to get to stuff for Cerberus the DA feels annoying/wasteful.

      Will these tabs only be capable of linking to subpages?

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    • For Devil Sword Dante and Devil Sword Sparda, i think these pages should be kept separate from "Dante/Devil_Arm" and "Sparda/Devil_Arm", and instead make "Dante/Devil_Arm" a redirect to "Devil Sword Dante" and same for Sparda's.

      The idea of having (for example) both "Dante/Gallery" and "Dante_(DmC)/Gallery" sounds better than having one "Dante/Gallery" for both characters. (and this goes for all things that share the same name within the reboot and original series)

      I think having demon pages like "King_Cerberus" and "King_Cerberus/Devil_Arm" is okay, but i believe for these cases it'd better to keep the Gallery in those pages rather than have one "King_Cerberus/Gallery", there usually aren't that many images/videos anyway.

      Having one "King_Cerberus/File" also sounds okay because the Devil Arm file usually talks about the demon anyway. However, just like the "/Gallery" page, we could just keep the files in "King_Cerberus" and "King_Cerberus/Devil_Arm" pages instead of making a subpage because for these there are usually 1, 2 or 3 files instead of a bunch of files per game (since the weapon/demon only appears in one game).

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    • Well... page merging could for sure work for Balrog favour... considering how little to nothing we have about him.

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    • Okay, here is a new shiny v2.0 of the idea. I separated the template into two - there is one which is responsible for subpages only, and one more which is responsible for "related titles".

      It will take longer to explain how it all works than you just going here and clicking on the links to see how it works yourself.

      In addition, as you can (maybe) see, there is already an option for override, so we can also integrate Dante<-->Devil Sword Dante together if we wish. So this functionality is more or less final (provided everyone agrees with the idea that is), although styling should be fine-tuned later.

      Now I need some sleep.

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    • You must be Nico, because this is a work of art

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    • <3

      Both of them still needs some styling uplift, but I think it should be slowly integrated into the articles already. Template:RelatedTitles requires a parameter to work (name of the base page, e.g. {{RelatedTitles|Eva}}), plus if you need an override you will have to ask me, but Template:Subpages is completely automatic.

      Yeah, also, sorry for creating redundant templates, but Template:Top is now completely useless. I will probably delete it or reuse the name for something else once nothing links to it anymore.

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    • I was aware of the template's lack of quotes subpage. Could you add it as well? (such as Vergil/Quotes)

      Sorry for late reply. I was sleeping.

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    • Sleep is great. Sleep is for the weak

      Also, done, it now supports quotes too.

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    • I'd almost forgot about two: Biography and Powers & Abilities.

      • Dante/Biography
      • Dante/Powers and Abilities

      I suggest these two and quotes subpages would work on Template:Subpages.

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    • And same for Vergil. This one is a different beast, since I am thinking of integrating those into main articles - preferably after trimming them down.

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    • That is a metric fuckton of cleaning up to do in Vergil/Dante articles now... @_@

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    • 😱😫

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    • Well, that needed to be done sooner or later. Need to finish my redesign first, though.

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    • A FANDOM user
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