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  • Since Vergil has no DLC, maybe Special Edition.

    And I’m thinking of Vergil and Dante working together in the Underworld. Vergil would go through trials of his past and showing that he’s done in the past few games. Including ghosts of his past: Eva, Nero and Nero’s mom. Plus have V return as his conscience - his human mind.

    Think of this as the opposite of Vergil’s Downfall

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    • Vergil atoned for his actions in DMC5 by closing the gate. He wasnt responsible for his actions as Nelo Angelo. He may feel some guilt over what happened in 3 but it really doesnt seem like it.

      The ghosts wouldnt make sense. He doesnt have beef with any of the characters you mentioned.

      V becoming his conscience would serve to undermine Vergil's arc in 5, where Vergil comes to accept himself for all of what he is.

      Vergil's Downfall's story (as a concept) worked because Vergil had unresolved issues with the "people" he faced.

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    • Really? But how will we ever see Nero's mom for the first time?

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    • ...Why was this thread closed?

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    • I mean Vergil did a few nasty things in the past (mostly his DMC 3 counterpart) but he's not a type of character who would regret his decision or try to atone for them to begin with.

      That being said, I dont mind Vergil DLC (or SE part) being a new story-mode in Underworld... It's way better than just having to replay all missions as him with one/two new cutscenes.

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    • Meshifuari Arimota wrote: but he's not a type of character who would regret his decision or try to atone for them to begin with.

      Except V literally says he does regret having done those things.

      V: <...> In separating and regaining my human soul, I've realized the gravity of the crime I've committed. I've realized how important everything was... everything I've thrown away in my pursuit for power.
      Trish: Is that why you went to find Dante?
      V: Yes. Foolish. I thought maybe he could change... maybe fix... maybe right my wrong. Tell me... was this fool before you right?

      And need I remind you that V is basically voice for all the thoughts Vergil is already having but will never say aloud?

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    • Sure V might have said that after splitting and regaining his humanity he started to regret his choices and now he's trying to "fix some of them" (Urizen problem), but in the end he chooses to merge with him just to defeat his older brother.

      That was his plan all along. Dante stated it. In the end it seems like V was playing the whole time just to merge with Urizen. Even his servants knew that it was V's goal all along.

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    • Does that scene look like anything but a person truly feeling deep regret for what he's done?

      Look, I agree, V is shady as hell and in fact downright manipulative at times. But at that moment, he shares his real thoughts and real weaknesses, and only because there was someone who looked like the one person he'd ever tell those things to - his mother. He was very, very honest at that moment, you can even call it a confession.

      I am just so tired of seeing people say otherwise. It's just so obvious.

      He did reunite with his other half afterwards, but can you blame him? The guy doesn't want to die. And given his current condition, the only way for him to live on is to re-merge with his other half. In fact, it looks very likely to me that until that talk with Trish he wasn't planning on anything but just stopping Urizen whatever the cost, and it's because of Trish's words he decides to see it through instead.

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: That was his plan all along. Dante stated it.

      Dante didn't state anything. Dante only speculates that it might've been so. He also wouldn't be aware of V having a change of heart in the middle of this all, he isn't a telepath.

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: Even his servants knew that it was V's goal all along.

      Quote please? Because I know that transcript pretty much by heart and I don't understand what you mean.

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    • You say that it's obvious to you that V truly regretted what he did... but TO ME (and probably many people that you're tired off) his later actions speak otherwise.

      As a players we are trying to interpret his motives based on his actions. There are certain actions that are showing small regret (when he was a V) and the ones that show that he doesnt care at all (as Vergil). 

      Even after he was merged into Vergil he decided to fight with Dante instead of cutting down the tree that was still destroying the city and killing innocent people. (He knew what to do to get rid off it). He only agreed to do it, after he lost to Nero and had not many options left.

      He then directly stated that Nero means nothing to him during Mission 19 (You can say that he was lying, sure, but I can as well say that he was telling the truth based on the examples provided below in my comment).

      In the chapter 1 (not 0) of Visions of V, V directly states that the only thing he regrets after attaing "heart" is the fact that he is powerless and that he's going to die. He then makes a contract with Griffon just to survive. "Not fix his wrongs" or anything like that. He's pursuing powers (chapter 0) and is willing to send Nero to fight just for the kid to die, so he can defeat Urizen (and absorb him).


      In the game (cant recall which mission I think it was the one with demon sword sparda) V also states that splitting was a mistake. 

      Given everything that I've stated above... I do belive that while V might have missed his childhood and his mother, he really never cared about Nero nor people that he has killed in the past (manga), he just wanted to absorb Urizen yet again and become Vergil. His speech to Trish (in my opinion) was just a good act (based on what he said in manga). 

      And even if I were to agree with you that V truly regretted everything, I still dont think that Vergil did. After all V was just his human half and another (demonic half) never gave a damn. After fusion he never truly apologised and never gave an impression of a person with regrets regarding his previous, horrible actions.

      That's my take on his persona. 

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    • Quotes, Meshi. QUOTES. Otherwise I am just not going to take you seriously.

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: and the ones that show that he doesnt care at all (as Vergil). 

      Haven't you noticed that Vergil has his head stuck up his ass pride? He'd NEVER admit to a weakness aloud, and "caring" is a weakness.

      Which is why the game gives exactly one moment of contemplation he does in a private moment:

      Vergil: That day, if our positions switched... Would our fates be different? Would I have your life, and you mine?

      Notice how he says it. He envies Dante, who has all those things he lost in pursuit of power.

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: Even after he was merged into Vergil he decided to fight with Dante instead of cutting down the tree that was still destroying the city and killing innocent people.

      Haven't you noticed that Vergil has his head stuck up his pride? He doesn't even want that anymore. He flips off Dante the first time under the pretense that defeating you like this has no meaning. He really doesn't look all that into it by the time Dante finds him the second time either.

      If you are so stuck up up your pride like Vergil is, of course you would continue even if on some level you realizes it's all useless, because people are stupid like that. It's called inertia.

      Notice how when Nero provides Vergil with an escape hatch, a way to escape his self-set purpose of defeating Dante without backing off and harming his precious pride, he takes it immediately under a bullshit excuse.

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: He only agreed to do it, after he lost to Nero and had not many options left.

      Addressed ^

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: He then directly stated that Nero means nothing to him during Mission 19 (You can say that he was lying, sure, but I can as well say that he was telling the truth based on the examples provided below in my comment).

      This is a very weird quote, and I am not the only one who says so. I can only interpret it as Vergil automatically brushing off Dante's taunting, only to double-take on it once there is a pause in the fight.

      Vergil: Nero is my son?

      He sounds like it's news to him, dammit! How could he say he doesn't care about his son and mean it if he didn't even know he had one!

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: In the chapter 1 (not 0) of Visions of V, V directly states that the only thing he regrets after attaing "heart" is the fact that he is powerless and that he's going to die.

      Quotes, Meshi, QUOTES.

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: He then makes a contract with Griffon just to survive. "Not fix his wrongs" or anything like that.

      QUOTES. Which I doubt you will find because the manga didn't even get that far yet. The last chapter stopped on Griffon proposing the contract, not even V agreeing to it.

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: He's pursuing powers (chapter 0) and is willing to send Nero to fight just for the kid to die, so he can defeat Urizen (and absorb him).

      QUOTES

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: In the game (cant recall which mission I think it was the one with demon sword sparda) V also states that splitting was a mistake.

      QUO-

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: After fusion he never truly apologised and never gave an impression of a person with regrets regarding his previous, horrible actions.

      Because Vergil is so stuck up his pride he would never apologize dammit! He doesn't give off that impression of having regrets because he has a need to keep up the stupid facade even when everything is already over.

      Which is why V is a better character than Vergil. V doesn't have that inordinate amount of pride. He actually talks about stuff, and it is awesome, and I will miss him.

      Meshifuari Arimota wrote: That's my take on his persona. 

      And no offense, but you'd be completely wrong. I spend a stupidly inordinate amount of time analyzing Vergil's character and going over every single line he ever said on-screen, because I happen to be a fanfic writer, and I like to keep my characters as close to canon as I can.

      I also happen to have met some people IRL who are very similar to Vergil, so I have a good guess at what motivates people like him.

      But somehow, I feel like we will end up agreeing to disagree.

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    • V had legitimate guilt for the things he had done. BtN covered that. He stayed in Red Grave and tried to help as many people escape the Qliphoth as he could.

      V also is only a part of Vergil, Urizen kept some of his personality traits.

      Just re-read Visions chapter 1 and he didnt say anything about regrets.

      I think Vergil needs to get his chance to kick Mundus' ass. Dante got his revenge but Vergil REALLY got the short end his whole life. He deserves to finish Mundus off for good.

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    • If Nero is the one to finish Mundus off for good, that would be a fun follow up on a line from the first game, though.

      Mundus: Dante, I will return... And I will rule this world!
      Dante: Goodbye! And when you do come back, give my regards to my son, will ya?

      (I know Nero isn't his son, but it's close enough.)

      But I agree Vergil really deserves that chance at revenge.

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    • I'd rather they don't trawl Mundus back up again, it'd be better to move forward with a new enemy rather than have Nero do something Dante already did.

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